I think the fine is a little steep, however, I think an erroding bluff could have implications to surrounding properties and to the environment. I think the homeowner should incur the cost of doing an impact study, and should be obligated to pay all costs associated with making sure the bluff hasn't been compromised. There has to be some control over what property owners can, and cannot do.

This would be rather typical of Fox Point. No one noticed that the entire lot was being clear-cut until all the trees were gone?

Oh no... guess they'll have to build a smaller mansion...

Absolutely! I worked for a custom home builder in the area and know that these laws are not only commonly known when you are building a home, but strictly enforced. Not only could they have seriously damaged the bluff and surrounding wildlife, but they did it all in the name of vanity for there home!

There are lots of ways to control bluff erosion. Trees are but one. Thats a huge fine for in my opinion a really minor infraction by otherwise law abiding people.

Let them do it and then let's watch their house fall in the lake because of the erosion.

They should simply be held responsible for potential damage to adjacent property from their actions. Since Fox Point seems to own the land I think it's Fox Point's responsibility to put up the appropriate signs. Fox Point was negligent as they did not have proper signage and notifications. If Fox Point isn't a group of complete idiots they will allow the "owners" (used loosely-maybe renters is more appropriate) to put that money into rectifying the situation. Regarding "impact studies" - this is all BS. You can make an impact study say whatever you like... happens all the time.

I agree the fine is to much, they shouldn't be fined at all. The village board should have known that trees may have to be removed, so who's fault is that? Didn't the board review the plans and layout of the property? Plus the couple agreed to restore the vegetation, so why should they be fined? Anything for a village to make up shortfalls in a budget.

Who owns the property? The owners, of course, not Fox Point. Further, were they warned that the village (in violation of property rights, IMHO) does not allow this activity? I disagree with John. If the activity does no harm to the property of another, the village has no ability to restrict its' use.

I think a proper fine might he be $200,000. It seems very unlikely that these people were not aware of requirements. More likely they decided that the fine would be just another cost in building their new home. We live on a bluff in Door County. We have a beautiful view of the water, yet you cannot see our home from the water. There are many new homes in DC that have ruined the landscape by clear cutting land so the owners can showcase their homes. And then they light it up with spotlights at night.

Chris is right...this seems to be a problem with the "board" in Fox Point. They approve the building plan one month (and of course, take the fee to "ask" the Village of for its permission to build and review the plan) and then the next month, they looked to see if the building site was compatable? Thats like closing the door AFTER the horse is out of the barn. Even better, isn't the employee who helped approved the plan an engineer? What did he think they were going to do, levitate it to build on that location? Fine the guy who runs the department of public works, then the board who approved it in the first place without checking things out before they did it.

I am familiar with the property. If you saw a "before" and "after" picture, you would be amazed at the devastation. The completely clear cut the property. Several old trees were cut down.

You cannot tell me that these people had no idea that cutting down trees on a bluff overlooking the lake would not be detrimantal to the landscape. Are you trying to tell me that people that have enough money to raze the existing stucture on the bluff and than build a newer structure on the bluff are that ignorant of the law or environmental matters. It is my firm belief that they went ahead to see what they could get away with and now that they were caught they pull the old "I did'nt know". Is this how they run their life or business? I am quite sure they knew but just like the rest of you "I have money and you don't" type people you will do what and where you want until someone tells you you broke the law, and now you cry over the fines. You knew exactly what you were doing and the fines incurred is just a cost of doing business. You guys make me sick!

No one is that stupid...they should be forced to sell their lot...if they can but that lot, they can afford fines and don't care about the laws

Who cut the trees down? The couple or some hired person(s)? Didn't anybody see what was happening? Lots of blame to pass around. What would be done before a permit is issued? Would a permit have saved any trees? I hope that some of the trees can be replanted.

They live in Fox Point. I am sure they can afford it.

Oh no, they cut down trees on THEIR property. Better to ask for forgiveness after than being denied before! $20,000 fine in Fox Point? Big deal. Meet at $10,000 and enjoy the view!

Does Fox Point still have a village forester or is that position vacant? Does anyone know?

Completely reasonable, it will costs thousands and thousands to replace mature trees that are essential to prevent erosion. I'm sure that they had to have been told sometime during this lengthy process what permits were required. Besides, based on current society they will probably sue someone else (general contractor) and not accept responsibility themselves.

What a piddly fine! In other words this just cost them an extra $20,000 on the cost of their home. That is minor in the big picture. They should be fined at least $1000 a tree AND required to replace the same amount plant matter back onto the slope.

NO FINE...if it is their property, the village is out of line.

Yes they should be fined (for shear stupidity) because especially on the lakefront trees offer protection from erosion on the bluff. Once again, people thinking only of themselves and not the bigger picture.

Its not the a right for some environment nut to decide what trees belong were. these are the same kind of confused people that have let millions of children around the world die of malaria by banning ddt to maybe save a few birds. Who made them GOD?

They bought their tickets. They knew what they were getting into. I say let 'em crash.

Fine needs to be enough to make people think twice about doing again and preventing others from doing the same, so in Fox Point I would suggest not high enough. And they should pay the full cost of remediation as well. I am totally disbelieving of no one involved wasn't aware of the zoning requirements. The arborist, the contractors, the architect/buider, etc...

Here's how I see it. Option 1-Homeowners are the passive-aggressive type. They knew Fox Point would deny them a permit to clear the whole bluff, they don't like being told no, so they decided to just do it anyway and pay the fines and consequences later. Certainly wouldn't be the first time a wealthy North Shore resident has pulled this kind of stunt. Besides, what's $20,000 to people who can tear down perfectly good $700,000 lakefront homes? Option 2- Homeowners really are clueless, and hired some shady/cheap tree removal company who have no excuse for not getting and/or obtaining a copy of the permit for this kind of work.

Yes, fine them, tar and feather them and then drag them through the streets of Fox Point. Who do these people think they are cutting down trees without permission? They should be severely punished so that they are put in their place! How dare they! Selfish, self-centered idiots!

If they own the land no fine. If it is public land the fine is appropriate. The story is not clear on this.

The couple should be fined and opposed to the cost of a bluff restoration project which might follow erosion and other damage $20,000 appears mild.

Thats their land! THATS THEIR CHOICE!! nOT ANYONE ELSES!

Has anyone considered that they knew it could be a fineable offense but thought it was worth the price to improve the lake view and add to the value of their property? This will be an expensive home and $20K will get lost in rounding--the owners won, the community lost. Wake up, people! Citizens should take a pro-active role when they see trees being cut down--get out of your cars and ask if they have permission to do so! I have done this, and everyone should. Fox Point Police--this should be something you look for on your patrols, too. The damage takes only a minute to happen and lasts more than a human lifetime.

The builder should be the one paying the fine. Or the compnay taking down the trees, either one should have know the code or at least checked before starting the chain saw.

Yes, they should be fined. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. $20,000 is about what it will cost the county to replant the bluff. To hell with the property owner's view!

I am sure they new about it. Did they think that none of the neighbors wanted the same. I am sure they figured 20k into the overall cost of the lot price. Lets see 20k more for a view or no view? Easy choice if you have the cash!! Friend have a condo in Door county the nieghbor waneted to remove trees and was told he could not unless trees were dead. He put up the house and had no water view, and sure enough suddenly he several trees die in just the right location so he would have great vierw. I believe it was the county sent out forester who found someone mysterioulsy put copper nails in the trees which killed the trees. He of course claimed it was not him. He had to replace all the trees, but the 50 ft trees he killed were replced by 4 ft trees. So guess what he won!!!! Go figure it was an attorney from Chicago!!!!

They shouldn't be fined, but they should be forced to build their expensive house as close as possible to the bluff so when it falls off the bluff they'll see why they should have removed their heads from their sanitary chutes before cutting down all those trees.

Do the crime, do the time. It is their land and their project so they are ultimately responsible for what happens on it. In addition to the fine I would require them to restore the land to as near as possible its state before the trees were cut down. then I would require them to post a substantial insurance policy or bond to protect their neighbors properties from erosion. It may take 5 years or more before the erosion starts.

No they should not be fined. Us rich folks can do what we want. Get over yourselves, hayseeds.

The property is theirs, not the property of Fox Point. They have the right to do as they see fit and is prudent for their project.

I looked at the ordinance --- the fine calls foer $100 to $1000, not $366? to $1000 per instance. Also, if they cut down 44 trees - why 20 citations? Either it's 1 or 44? Who drew up the citation for the Village?

If the trees were cut in the summer why did it take the Village employee in the article to be made aware of the situation in October? Then why did it take the Village 3 months to issue citations? It makes no sense at all...doesn't the Public Works guy ever leave his office to see what is going on in his Village?

If the trees were cut in the summer why did it take the Village employee in the article to be made aware of the situation in October? Then why did it take the Village 3 months to issue citations? It makes no sense at all...doesn't the Public Works guy ever leave his office to see what is going on in his Village?

We live on a lake. Before we built, we checked the laws. We even contacted the DNR. Pleading ignorance is a poor excuse. But what will probably happen (it has happened on our lake), is that they are given a slap on the wrists and no fine. Not only should they be fined, but they should also pay to have large grown trees replanted there.

I think this would constitute illegal "takings" by the government. If you own land, everything above and below it belongs to you --- example mineral rights. Obviously if something is transient --- for example deer come onto your property, or a stream runs through it, the government has an interest in its police powers to have some sort of regulation. If however, it wants to prohibit you from cutting trees --- I believe the government would have to buy that right from you

yes its the code pay attention to what you are doing

I don't understand the "It's their land, they can do whatever they want" sentiment. Yes- it's their land, but they also removed several trees on Village property. This isn't too different from the guy lived on Terrace Ave, who cut down trees in Lake Park a few years ago, because they obstructed his lake view.

I also wanted to point out, for those that haven't purchased trees lately, that $20,000.00 doesn't buy a whole lot of trees. Far less than what were removed. I also wouldn't be surprised if residents complained to the Village, about the clear cutting. It looks terrible!

I completely understand and feel their pain and think the fine is ridiculous. My wife got me a chainsaw last year. It's so awesome, I can't stop myself from cutting down trees in my yard (wish I had more to cut down)! My property, my yard, my trees. It's my decision to cut them down - not the government. No permit should ever be required - not in Fox Point. Not anywhere in Wisconsin on privately owned land.

Yes. If they can afford to purchase a home, tear it down in order to build their dream house, then they should follow all procedures. Trees this large cannot have a price tag put on them. Fine them.

They should be fined such that they can no longer liver there. These people are so greedy that they can ruin and entire ecosystem for a view. DISGUSTING!

I think if the Village of Fox Point or the State of WI want to control the vegetation along the lakeshore bluffs they should buy the bluffs. If the bluff is private property then the owners should be allowed to do as they please. Erosion of the bluff is a natural process which occurs whether property owners cut trees or not. How do you suppose the bluff got to be a bluff?

I think if the Village of Fox Point or the State of WI want to control the vegetation along the lakeshore bluffs they should buy the bluffs. If the bluff is private property then the owners should be allowed to do as they please. Erosion of the bluff is a natural process which occurs whether property owners cut trees or not. How do you suppose the bluff got to be a bluff?

The fine , even at 20 k will be just a part of the building. They knew this would happen and they think it will be negotiated down. Yes fine them

Of course they should be fined. Ignorance is no way to skirt the laws. They should pay more for specimen trees.

Im sure they knew what they were doing. They wanted a view of the lake and the fines are not high enough. When the value of the land is probably in excess of 499k whats another 20k to them. They are just being selfish and don't care about any needs of the general public.

I agree the Village should have rights to regulate trees that were planted and cared by the Village over the years. If the trees in question were planted and cared for by the previous owners then the Village shouldn't be able regulate, unless they claim Eminent Domian rights - then they would have to compensate the landowner.

You guys have a Village Forester? How do you get a cushy gig like that...counting trees that's value-add.

When we build a home our builder took down as few trees as possible to build the house. The builder was totally aware of that requirement in the area. Besides, why would anyone want to remove all the trees? "Stupid is as stupid does."

why would you want to cut trees down?i cry every time the maintance dept. here at the schools cut a tree down and it is usually done with the blessing of the school board. please save our trees

"our trees"? Isn't this a private residence and private property?

They should tear down all those old ranch houses and rebuild new houses to increase the tax base in Fox Point. Why is it always lefty freaks that assume that they know what's best for someone else's property.

I want more goverment ! I'm sure at least half those trees were Ash. When they fall down naturally it would cause more damage to it that cutting them down.

I am familiar with the property and the incident. I have read all the comments previous to mine. However all the speculative comments as to what happened and what the owners did knowingly or unknowingly are all wrong for your information. It just goes to show you that vindictive, jealous and ignorant people who care more about the environment (that is not warming by the way) than the lives of human beings hoping that their home falls into Lake Michigan shows you their lack of intelligence and respect for others. Fox Point officials are swinging from the trees as well. I did visit the site and saw they did nothing to disturb the bluff. Most of you who love the DNR when I called said they did nothing wrong with the cutting. It appears that Fox Point should be doing their own in house pruning. Or maybe all of you should start a tree planting commission aimed at planting a lot of trees in front of and behind Summerfest and beyond so we cannot see the beautiful lake we are so blessed with. This backward and isolationist way of thinking will keep cheese on our heads for sure! Get with the times and send these people a congratulatory letter for their mistake.

I believe the owners had to know, and should be fined. We can't be that ignorant that them or their lawyer that they didn't know. Also, since the village is less than consistent on enforcement, like the property next door that clear cut, for a much lower fine, we seem to have staff running amok. Finally, for this ordinace to really work, fine the tree cutters, and make sure the owner doesn't reimburse them. THAT would get the ordinance enforced.

Mona- Please note that if it weren't for the environment, we wouldn't be here (I don't think I should need to provide scientific facts for this). If the property owners had an issue with the trees, that were on the Village right-of-way (which is Village property), they should have brought it to the attention of the Village Manager, and tried to resolve the issue. They did not. If the landowners wanted to remove trees along the bluff, they should have contacted the Village, as required to do. They did not. Pointing fingers at some of the public opinions, on this site, does not change the fact that the landowners were grossly negligent, and subject to fines. The trees that were removed on the Village right-of-way, belonged to everyone in the community (most of whom enjoy Fox Point due to the number of trees). I do know a number of nearby residents that are fuming over this lack of conciousness, by the landowners.

Mona, are you serious? They did no harm to the bluff? Thanks for the typical, myopic, short-term, immediate-gratification, "there's no one else on the planet but me" thinking. If you know anything about trees, you know they send out roots. If you know anything about roots, you know the roots hold the soil in place, particularly on inclines. Surely, you know that if the trees are cut, the roots die, and leave nothing to hold the soil in place on places . . . like say, a bluff. All those roots left to die from the cut trees will need decades to be rebuilt in order to do the same job of holding the soil in place on the bluff. Good luck with that. Absolutely, the fine is justified!

My Dear Mona, You indicated that you have observed the bluff first hand. Interesting. Do you have a formal background in land management and restoration, or did you simply make your own observation, on the fact that dirt didn't cascade like waterfall down the hill yet? I think we can all agree the owners look at this matter as a "mistake" only because they got caught. Since you are familiar with the property, you know that this isn't a small lot, and that the owners removed well over 100 trees. I don't get the congratulatory letter bit- it almost appears that you think this whole thing is "funny".

Hey Mom..."myopic, short-term"...how about looking at what this bluff entailed PRIOR to residents white-flighting out of city to the suburbs. The bluffs along Lake Michigan in this area were deviod of trees...as nature, for the previous millions of years, staged this bluff. The trees were brought to the bluff by the farmers and then residents - not nature. Trees, introduced by man, especially the large, mutual ones, actually increase the odds of bluff failure due to the increased stress (weight of the tree) then compared to the natural state of prairie grasses and low-profile shubbery. If we are going to argue what is best for the environment, can't we agree to look back to what was the original state prior to man changing the "face", if so, then the owners have indeed stepped us in the right direction.

Hey, great idea, stiffing the tree service that took the trees down. Just more rich people who are clueless about how the rest of society lives deciding to teach hard working people a lesson. Good idea, now you can have your taxes go up to pay for more unemployed people who you can now discriminate against in your whitey white white North shore paranoid communities. Yes, stiff the contractor who was hired, THAT"S THE TICKET!!

Yes. And the fine is not large enough. Compared to the cost of the home being built, the fine is tiny. They pay $20,000 and get an unsurpassed view of the lake, obviously what they wanted from the beginning. Nothing can be done now except to say shame on you, shame.

Yes. And the fine is not large enough. Compared to the cost of the home being built, the fine is tiny. They pay $20,000 and get an unsurpassed view of the lake, obviously what they wanted from the beginning. Nothing can be done now except to say shame on you, shame.

Million dollar + project, 20K fine, hit'em harder!!!